INTERVIEW: Mackenzie Shivers

Mackenzie Shivers

Interview by: Emily May

NY based singer, songwriter and pianist Mackenzie Shivers has always loved music. From a young age, she told her mother that she had music inside of her that needed to come out and has always written and performed music as a means of expressing her emotions. She wrote her first song at the age of 4, started taking piano lessons at the age of 5, and grew up singing harmonies with her sister. She has released three full length albums, 2014’s Neverland, 2019’s The Unkindness, and Rejection Letter, released in April of this year. She has also released 3 EPs, 2016’s Living in My Head, 2017’s Ravens and 2019’s Holiday EP, Midwinter. Last year, she took what she thought would be a short vacation with her husband to a friend’s home in Cape Cod at the onset of the worldwide pandemic. They ended up being there for 3 months, and the change in scenery and the serenity of the resort town inspired her to write what would become her most recent album, Rejection Letter. Although she would normally write songs on her piano, the only instrument she had with her was a nylon stringed guitar that her father had gifted her, causing her to focus on honing her skills on the instrument and exploring it in ways she had not done before. Her time in quarantine allowed her to shed the self-imposed pressures she normally operated under and guitar tutorials by UK singer-songwriter Laura Marling inspired her to experiment with alternate tunings and take a much more freeform approach to her playing. Although Shivers had already written the 13 songs that she thought would comprise Rejection Letter, she returned to New York with a new batch of songs and worked with her producer/engineer Kevin Salem to rethink the approach to recording the album. In the interest of safety and social distancing, they decided to record the album piecemeal. Her bandmates Yuka Tadano (bass) and Cody Rahn (drums) recorded their parts separately, while she joined via FaceTime, and her cellist Oliover Kraus sent in his parts virtually from LA. Shivers sees Rejection Letter as her way of combatting her nature as a people pleaser, taking ownership of her voice and her ability to speak up and speak out, and embracing her rebellious spirit as an artist. Shivers has created a 3-part music video series for the album, comprised of videos for “Martha’s Vinyard”, “Afraid”, and the soon to be released “Butterscotch”. She also recently took part in The Woodstock Sessions, recording several of the songs live with a grand piano. With plans to release more music, Shivers plans to release an EP and then head into the studio to record a whole new batch of songs. You can connect with Mackenzie Shivers via the following links. Photo credit: Lissyelle Laricchia.

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At a young age, you told your mom that you had music inside of you that needed to come out, having written your first song at the age of 4 and started piano lessons at 5. What can you tell me about the pull you felt towards music from a young age and about singing harmonies with your sister growing up? In what ways do you feel that writing and performing music has helped you to express yourself and release your emotions?

It’s interesting you bring up both my sister and my introduction to music because my first memories consist of those two things: visiting the hospital just after my sister Sarah Wells (Swells, as I call her) was born, and playing a Muppet Babies keyboard at a friend’s birthday party. I was just shy of three years old in both memories.  Singing with Swells is my favorite thing to do. We grew up singing together all the time, and I didn’t realize how special it was until I became an adult. We can harmonize together without thinking, without rehearsing. It’s completely effortless and a reflection of how close we are. When we both lived in NYC, we’d perform together as The Shivers Sisters.  In terms of growing up playing the piano and composing, they were always my outlets to express feelings I didn’t quite know how to approach otherwise. Sadness and pain especially. When I was sad, I played the piano. When I was heartbroken, I wrote songs. And I still do. It’s a way to process. But now that I’m older, I’m learning other ways to process and cope with these feelings. Therapy has helped me a lot. I truly believe it’s allowed me to be a better songwriter. Music is still cathartic, but now it’s not my only outlet.

You took a vacation to Cape Cod to stay with friends right as the pandemic hit, leading your planned week-long vacation to turn into 3 months. You have said that you found the change in scenery and the serenity of the environment to be very inspiring, which led to songs pouring out of you. What can you tell me about that experience?

I find few things more inspiring than being on the water. The light was constantly changing and different every day. I tend to be a prolific writer when I’m in motion, whether on a train, plane, or in a car, and I think the movement of the water inspired me to write a lot. I found it to be a powerful reminder that nothing is stagnant and change is inevitable. That was especially poignant during the pandemic.

Although you typically write songs on the piano, the only instrument you had with you was a nylon-stringed guitar gifted to you by your father. What was that experience like for you, exploring that instrument in ways you never had before and writing songs in a different way? Do you feel it changed the way you will approach songwriting going forward?

It definitely changed how I wrote! I was playing chords and progressions I don’t usually gravitate towards at the piano. The textures were new and the ways my fingers formed chords were new. Writing on the acoustic guitar gave me confidence and emboldened me to try writing on different instruments going forward. The piano will always be my main instrument and I will always compose on it, but now I’m eager to play around with the electric guitar and try writing on that. The sounds will be completely different, and who knows what songs will come from it. I find that exciting.

You have said that in quarantine, you shed any sort of self-imposed pressure that had always imbued you as a songwriter and that you experimented with alternate tunings, guided by online guitar tutorials from singer/songwriter Laura Marling. What do you feel that you learned from those tutorials and how did they lead to a newfound sense of fun and joy for you?

Piano lessons shaped my first two decades as a musician, but I haven’t taken formal lessons since college. So these Laura Marling tutorials were like taking guitar lessons except much more casual and incredibly fun and cool because, you know, it’s Laura Marling and she’s doing it on Instagram.  She would demonstrate different tunings and then teach a song or two in those tunings, so often times I would learn the chords and then would find my own voicings or chord progressions in that tuning and a song would be born from it. That’s how I wrote “Martha’s Vineyard” and “Gold,” two songs on my latest record.

You recently released your 3rd album Rejection Letter, and before heading to Cape Cod, you had already written the 13 songs you thought would comprise your album. You returned to New York from Cape Cod, however, with a new batch of songs. What can you tell me about your shift in approach towards the album and having to rethink your approach to recording your album with your producer/engineer Kevin Salem?

Originally, the record was going to be tracked live with the band. But we didn’t feel that was the right way to go once the pandemic hit for several reasons. Safety was the biggest issue. But I also had these new songs that I hadn’t rehearsed with the band yet because we were all in lockdown! The album ended up being about half and a half - songs written pre-pandemic and songs written during.  So Kevin Salem and I had a meeting and asked ourselves, “How can we make this album right now? And how can we do it safely?”.  A record is always a moment in time; a slice of life. So we decided to record in a way that reflected the times we were in: everyone recording separately. But we still wanted to be able to record in studios and use professional recording equipment, so we tracked at two different studios in the Woodstock area, The Hidden Quarry and Kevin’s studio The Distortion Tank.

What can you tell me about the recording process for the album and the decision to record the album piecemeal, with you and your bandmates recording your respective parts separately? How would you describe that experience for you, on having to just focus solely on your part rather than having everyone playing together in a room?

I started things off by spending a week with Kevin in the studio, so I was able to just focus on my parts instead of multi-tasking like I do when we’re recording live as a band. And that gave me the freedom to explore and try lots of different things. We really dug into the sound and made sure we had a very solid base for the band to record over. Then Cody Rahn came up to Woodstock to record drums after my parts were finished, and Yuka Tadano followed on bass.  We were all given more time and attention than we do if we’re recording together live, and I think that’s reflected in the final product. A couple moments that are my favorites are Cody on “Mess” and Yuka on “Kids.” They really shine.

In what ways do you feel that the process of writing and recording the songs for Rejection Letter helps you to combat your nature as a people pleaser and take ownership of your voice and your ability to speak out and speak up? Having also described this album as you at your best and most complex to date, showing new sides to you a darker, angrier, and moodier side, while still feeling whimsical-what do you feel you learned about yourself in the making of this album?

I learned that I am a very multi-layered person, and there are so many aspects of myself to discover, explore, and embrace. We as humans are multifaceted and complex, and I think that’s a beautiful thing.  On Rejection Letter, I shared things that were a bit uncomfortable, like questioning whether or not I wanted to become a mother and then having difficulty conceiving. Those topics aren’t discussed very much in music or in life, and it’s important to me to not shy away from things just because they’re messy or considered taboo. It’s a part of my story, and it’s honest.

You have talked about taking a lot of time to reflect on the shifting state of the world and how you want to move through life in this new phase of Covid that includes vaccinations and re-openings. What does that look like for you and do you feel that your views of life and the world have shifted significantly post-Covid from what they were before?

I’m trying to put a lot less pressure on myself than I did pre-Covid. I’m more mindful of how I use social media, I’m trying not to compare myself to others, and I’m allowing myself to rest. And I’ve discovered that when I do that, it often fosters a lot of creative energy.  Before the pandemic, I tied my self-worth into things like how many people came to my shows or how many people engaged with my social media posts. I don’t want to do that to myself anymore. I’m working on being kinder to myself, knowing that my value as a person and an artist is not based on things like ticket sales or Instagram likes.  But it can be hard. I’m still finding that balance with social media in particular. I really like connecting with people on Instagram, and I’ve met some wonderful people through that platform. But I don’t like fighting against the algorithm for visibility. That’s especially hard when I’m promoting an album. The rules of social media and its algorithms are always changing, and it’s easy to feel like you’re never doing enough. And that’s an unhealthy mindset to be in.

What can you tell me about your concept for a 3-part video series for Rejection Letter and how you chose the songs to do videos for? You most recently released the video for "Afraid", the second video in the series, which was influenced by Brittanie Bond's haunting and evocative images for her photo series "we move lightly". How did you come across her work and what can you tell me about working with her, Marco Pitruzella and dancer/choreographer Candice Schnurr and the idea behind the video?

The videos match the singles - “Martha’s Vineyard”, “Afraid”, and then “Butterscotch” will be released soon. I worked with Lâle Teoman on two of the videos and Britannie Bond on the other. I wanted to work with them because I thought their aesthetic really matched what I was going for - whimsical, moody, surrealist. I’ve worked with them both before and find them to be incredible collaborators and people.  As far as working with Britannie on “Afraid” goes, I’ve known her for a long time and was already familiar with her “we move lightly” photo series. She told me she also had video footage to go with the project that featured dancer Candice Schnurr. So she and her partner Marco Pitruzella created this film just for “Afraid” out of that footage. And I love how it came out and think it captured the grief, longing, and internal struggle depicted in the song so beautifully.

You also took part recently in The Woodstock Sessions to record several of the songs from the album live with a grand piano. How did that experience come about and what was it like for you?


Applehead Recording has hosted The Woodstock Sessions since 2013. They invite people to sit in as artists play a set and record it live. So it’s essentially a creation of a live album at their studio. But when Covid hit, they re-worked it so that artists came in and performed a set without an audience, and it was recorded and turned into videos. The studio owner knows Kevin Salem, and I had also recorded at Applehead before, so we were all connected in that way. When they found out I was recording a new album, they thought having me in for a pandemic session would be great. And it was a complete blast. I just released this video for the album’s title track.

What's next for you? What are your goals going forward?

I’ll be releasing an EP, and then I’m going back into the studio to record a whole new batch of songs. So it’s safe to say lots more music is on its way! My goals are to continue making and releasing music and to stay very much in love with the process of it.